I happened to visit the JEE website, which provides all the details regarding the admission. I also downloaded the counselling brochure which is an information guide for the prospective students. What I read was horrifying - a nightmare to say the least.
Here's a part of the brochure:
"IIT Hyderabad is one of the three new IITs proposed by the Ministry of Human Resource Development, Government of India. The academic session in IIT Hyderabad will commence from August 2008. IIT Madras has been identified as the mentor institution for IIT Hyderabad. To start with, B.Tech program in three branches will be offered, namely, Computer Science and Engineering, Electrical Engineering and Mechanical Engineering with 40 students in each branch. During the first year of the program, classes will be conducted in a suitable campus located in the city of Hyderabad. Students will be provided with hostel and dining facilities within the campus. The curriculum, course structure and syllabus for various courses will be the same as in IIT Madras. The fee structure will also be the same as that of IIT Madras."If you thought that was unimaginable, wait till you see this:
"IIT Patna is one of the new IITs proposed by the Ministry of Human Resource Development, Govt. of India. Its location and academic calendar will be known in due course of time. To start with, 4-year B.Tech. programme will be offered in three branches, viz., Computer Science and Engineering, Electrical Engineering and Mechanical Engineering with 40 students in each branch. The curriculum, course structure and syllabus for the first year courses and the fee structure will be broadly same as in the mentor IIT. The first year classes may also be held at the mentor IIT campus after which they will be relocated to the place where the new IIT will be established and the students taking admission in the new IIT will be required to give an undertaking to this effect."It is the same case with IIT Rajasthan.
As with most nightmares, this one too doesn't seem to end. Extremely unfortunate, but here is more. Further to the drama of overnight 'establishment' of more IITs, a circular was released which can be accessed here:
"The Government of India has announced setting up of 8 more new IITs in the 11th plan. Admissions in the following six new IITs, subjected to the approval@ of the competent authority of the Govt. of India, is likely to take place during the counselling session of JEE 2008."
@ If for any unforeseen reason the start of any new IIT is delayed, admission to that IIT will not be taken up during counseling session of JEE 2008.
To aid in my memorizing the names of the new IITs and for my future reference, here I list them:
- IIT Gandhinagar
- IIT Punjab
- IIT Patna
- IIT Hyderabad
- IIT Bhuvaneshwar
- IIT Rajasthan
Interesting and extremely amusing points to note from each of them: (By now, the whole experience was turning to be funny)
IIT Rajasthan
The location of the new IIT in Rajasthan will be announced by the Government of India. In the meantime, IIT Kanpur would be acting as the mentor institute of IIT Rajasthan.. Till the required infrastructure comes up, the classes will be held at the IIT Kanpur campus, after which the students will be relocated to the place in Rajasthan where the new IIT gets established. The students taking admission to the new IIT Rajasthan, along with their parents, will be required to give an undertaking to this effect.IIT Gandhinagar
...Till the campus of the new IIT in Gujarat gets established, the classes will be held within the premises of Vishwakarma Government Engineering College, Chandkheda, which is within the municipal limits of Gandhinagar. Students will be provided with residential and other facilities at a temporary location. The curriculum will be similar to that of IIT Bombay with some differences until the time the academic bodies of the new IIT is in place. Fee structure will be same as that of the mentoring Institute...
IIT Bhuvaneswar
...The location will be intimated in due course and the academic programme will start from 24 July 2008 in the IIT Kharagpur campus. After completion of first year in IIT Kharagpur, the students will be shifted to new location where IIT Bhuvaneswar will be established. The first year fee structure will be same as that of IIT Kharagpur.
Don't be mistaken, we are still talking about the famous Indian Institutes of Technology, which have made a mark for themselves all over the world as the strongest Indian brand. Fortune 500s, the Navratnas, the PSUs, the Scientists - you name it, they are there. And the government believes it can recreate the brand overnight, even without a single brick being laid? Without any external support? WITHOUT FACULTY? For the records, the Engineering Design department building at IIT Madras, only a building, was supposed to be completed by Dec 2005 and it is May of 2008 now - it is still only a civil-engineer's sight-visit place. Also, IIT Madras faces a acute shortage of faculty. [When IIT Madras was founded way back in 1958, it had funding from the GoI and support from the German Govt. and there was no dearth of quality faculty. More importantly, they were founded to build the country; unlike now, to win elections.]
Here's my take on the whole issue:
Having spent three years being part of the IIT system, I can safely say that the system teaches you much more outside the classroom than inside. So, all those dumbfucks in Delhi need to realise that just announcing the formation of IITs within their ignorant midst does not make the IITs, it merely creates another college. IITs are not colleges, they are IITs. For all that the IITian is valued, it is not his technical know-how, not his competency in academics; it is his sheer intelligence and analytical skills (which I am assuming the JEE still upholds).
But where I see the new IITs just being another college with bright kids is the fact that they'll miss out on the system; Being in the pioneer batch of a new department in an established IIT itself was tough enough for me, I can't shudder to think the plight of the students in departments of non-existent IITs.
Here's another perspective. Of the real IITs (the established seven), B-D-K-Kgp-M are doing very well according to the Indian standards (mind you, according to world standards, we are still lag grossly behind), while R and G are still second-rung IITs. Their placements are not as good, infrastructure not as good, faculty shortage blah blah and a thousand other blahs. Now with the virtual IITs also in the fray, it is but natural that these IITs will be third-rung. Perhaps, my prediction is they will be worse than even the NITs and quite a few private Engg. colleges in the country. Brand-IIT will cease to exist; individual brands will evolve - IIT Madras for example will be a much more formidable brand than IIT itself.
If you are a non-IITian who painstakingly read this long post, here's an insider's info: The placements in the real IITs itself is not the best and we ourselves are grappling with the poor response from the industry. The 1-crore job you read about in your favourite newspaper is a myth - no such thing exists. Think of the virtual IITs now!
Final comment: If I were to advice my sister on joining IITs now, I would definitely ensure she does not take up the farce new IITs - those which exist only in Arjun Singh's letterhead. She would be much better off in an NIT or a good-enough private engineering college in Bangalore. Infact, I think I would encourage her to start-up after 12th! :-P But, thankfully there is a good three year period before I need to think about it.
I pity those 720 non-fellow IITians.
20 comments:
hmm... at this point of time "How many IITs are there?" would be an apt pop quiz question!
jokes apart, I too am saddened and appalled at the bluntness with which new IITs were being created...
File > New > New IIT
also, whats the point of "converting NITs to IITs?" Shouldn't they pump in enuf cash to just set up PROPER new IITs? With a full fledged campus, buildings, etc?
As blunt as it may sound, one of the reasons also for the well-justified hype of the IIT's was their scarcity and now.. It would be.. "Hmm I don't know what do I do after 12th, but just as a backup let's give IIT JEE".
Sucks the way politics has ruined the education system. They want more engineers and doctors and by the looks of it, they don't care about the quality.
I don't understand why certain things can't be kept far off from the political warzone. These dumbfucks leave no chance to prove their dumbness...
itna lamba post padhne ke baad comment likhne ka enthu nahi hai
Hey there...
Seriously pal, its hard to imagine how the new IITs will find quality faculty even if the campuses are operational...
Just when we thought that something even indirectly operated and controlled by the government (read the IIT system)...just when the world's attention on the IITs had become more frequent and benevolent..our politicians had to do this...
Really unfortunate!
Sad thing to create new iits actually. And as you put it, the new iit's will figure lower than the BITS, BHU-IT, and NIT's and all. So that 2.5 lakhs per student .. a staggeringly large amount of money would all be a waste.
Instead if people are particular about the iit brand, then lets improve existing colleges and make them iit's in due course. RV College, PESIT in Bangalore, the BHU-IT, and many others are excellent colleges and provide a good base to develop them and eventually make them iits.
If adequate attention is paid to the other colleges, the brand name craze would also be an unimportant formality.
Add to this the new reservation for profs!
Converting colleges that have been functioning to a reasonable standard (like the NITs) to IITs seems better. At least, those are really there!
Hey, longish post! Would like to leave a lengthy comment, an answer kind of thing for several issues raised. Will do it soon. Wait for it! :P
OK. Here it goes...
Fortune 500s, the Navratnas, the PSUs, the Scientists - you name it, they are there.
Ofcourse, and there can be more ! Why are only the first 4000 rankers in JEE considered the cream and not 8000. EVen this accounts to 5% of the total no of students taking JEE. Do you think India being so populous has only 4000 perfect engineers?
And the government believes it can recreate the brand overnight, even without a single brick being laid?
Everything is built up over time. Same holds good here too.
Without any external support? WITHOUT FACULTY?
No external support? Ahem! I thought every new IIT has a mentoring institute. Abt faculty, the trend is on the up-side with IITM alone recruiting close to 200 newer faculty over the past four years. 200 Post-docs, from reputed institutes taking teaching as their carrier is not a joke!
For the records, the Engineering Design department building at IIT Madras, only a building, was supposed to be completed by Dec 2005 and it is May of 2008 now - it is still only a civil-engineer's sight-visit place.
This is more of a reason to start of IIT's immediately, so that infrastructure gets into place earlier than had they started them late. Dont you think there will be pressure on the mentoring institutes to get the newer ones equipped with a nice infrastructure and the govt. would be more liberal with funding. This has infact happened with this institue called GMRT, Pune- which was initially mentored by TIFR.
Also, IIT Madras faces a acute shortage of faculty.
Absolute distortion of facts. This was the case before I could join IIT. Not any longer- Source of info is diro's EML.
Have to run to take the bus now. Remaining part later! :P
@ Hypo,
Nice one - File > New > New IIT
LOL
@ Ugri, :D
@ Tushar,
Yes, it is a long post - just could not resist writing it. Infact, I have to write a lot more. But held back.
@ Sthiramathi aka Seizonsha,
True indeed.
@ assman,
Thats the logical way ahead but somehow logic defies these politicians. Every single time.
@ Aniketanand,
That is being reconsidered, hopefully wisdom prevails.
@ Srikanth
LOL! Also, heard the new IITs have not even been 'registerd' yet!
Continuing from where I left, whether you like it or not (this comment would perhaps make you change the comment settings- anyways a dear topic for me, don't stop me for this one time!),
currently existing IIT's are assumed to be capable enough to mentor the lower ones, and hence none of the foreign univs are being approached for. Incase thats done, that will be seen as an embarrassment for these institues.
Having spent three years being part of the IIT system, I can safely say that the system teaches you much more outside the classroom than inside.
So, let the system spread.
For all that the IITian is valued, it is not his technical know-how, not his competency in academics; it is his sheer intelligence and analytical skills (which I am assuming the JEE still upholds).
Refer to the answer to the first point. It is true that the top 2% in JEE is the cream. But its just a part of the cream. The cream can be denser.
Being in the pioneer batch of a new department in an established IIT itself was tough enough for me, I can't shudder to think the plight of the students in departments of non-existent IITs.
BITS Goa has a similar culture like BITS Pilani now. BITS Hyd is fast catching up. YOu should give sometime for anything to evolve. And as you said' nothing can be done overnight.'ABt ED, at IITM, dude believe me your batch is going to witness amazing placments. Do you know that a few of the foreign univs have introoduced a similar program inspired by IITM's curriculum? I don't have the names right now.
Of the real IITs (the established seven), B-D-K-Kgp-M are doing very well according to the Indian standards (mind you, according to world standards, we are still lag grossly behind), while R and G are still second-rung IITs.
This is what people think during counseling. Until a few years back IITKgp, owing to it being the first IIT, was given precedence to Mumbai, and Chennai during counseling. But now, you know the trend. Latest news is, this year, IITKgp could attract 3 people in the top 100. Insitutes will develop and the first few batches will help them develop. After all apart from maintaining quality, IIT's have some nobler aims- to serve Indian education sector kind of things (diro keeps telling them).
Their placements are not as good, infrastructure not as good, faculty shortage blah blah and a thousand other blahs.
WHats a good placement? Schlum and Mc. Kenzie- forget it. Quoting Guwahati's numbers, they have an avge salary of 7.5 lakhs- pretty good? I am not even able to count 3 more 'blah blahs' in the list of the possible 1000 blah blahs. Harvard Ph.D's are in IIT G as faculty currently.
MY suggestion is don't jump into such immediate conclusions. If every student in the US, graduates out from a good university- not associating himself with this mad JEE kind of competition, and still be called a good graduate, why not most students from India? Infact one good thing about IIT's is they are perhaps the first in the country to show signs of shifting to a university culture (MBA/ MA/MSc etc.. reveals that). So an IIT mentored institute has better chances of emulating a similar behavior.
NIT's on the other hand work on the principle of state quotas. They were infact established for that and you need some institutes to serve selected interests. Their motive is different. And upgrading them to IIT's just affects that motive.
After all this was a proposal by the IIT alumni themselves, people of your and my kind. THey are not as dumb as the people sitting over at Delhi, right!
For more insights let me suggest you to go through nanopolitan.blogspot.com - the section devoted for IIT's.
Yes now I am done, and hope the difference in opinion is taken positively!
Hi Jimmy,
Appreciate a different perspective on the whole issue. While many of the points that you (and I) have raised are very subjective and deserve an in-depth analysis from both sides.
You had mentioned BITS Goa - they started the institute only after substantial infrastructure was put in place and had faculty onboard. Just happened to read yesterday that the academic sessions in new IITs will be delayed owing to 'lack of infrastructure and NO faculty' http://www.telegraphindia.com/1080706/jsp/nation/story_9510965.jsp
Lets agree to disagree on the question of establishment of more IITs.
The newer IITs have been established and we are expecting them to solely harp on the reputation created by the existing IITs, which is grossly unfair. If the whole point is to accommodate the cream, then why not upgrade the NITs (which are as of today, very competent) or a handful of other existing institutions like the IT-BHU - which perhaps are as competent as the IITs as they too get the cream but are not as hyped as they don't have the 'tag'. So what is the issue here - is it about building world-class institutions or just making more 'IIT Engineers'. Why is it that the 'IIT' Tag be associated with these new institutions? Start off a bunch of new institutes, have them mentored my the IITs, get competent faculty onbaord, give them all the support, make JEE the basis of admission; this would have been so much more acceptable.
Regarding my branch ED, things are not as rosy as the world thinks it is. I would not like to strip the facts naked here on this forum - being a young branch, it'd not hold good. But there definitely is a faculty-crunch. So many courses which have brilliant content have been taught by faculty who are not the experts in that field (in fact have totally different research interests). Nonetheless, the concept is great and is sure to be a success inthe coming years.
Placements - I definitely did not have McKs and Schlums in mind. Perhaps the core companies. And don't we all know that they are complaining about the 'poorer' quality of B.Techs and DDs? So there are fundamental problems within existing IITs and these WILL carry over to the newer ones as well. Oh and KGP did not manage a single student in top 100 :D :D, and they managed a total of 3 (or 4) in the last 4 years it seems!
Refreshing to see a thought from the other side of the fence. Cheers.
http://nanopolitan.blogspot.com/2008/04/pv-indiresans-bad-arguments-against.html
This would be a good read, echoing some of my views too. It answers on of your questions abt the IIT tag issue.
Sorry for quoting wrong figures abt IITKgp. It was from memory!
Deviating slightly from the topic of discussion, personally I feel much of this core companies fuss about IITians not being technically sound, needs to be ignored; for they weren't made by any reputed companies. I know of a chem core company which had asked my friend, the following question:
'Why is the shape of the rainbow an arc, why not a complete circle?- as if that were a research interview. Our man bulbed and the company passed bad comments- the bad ones. This may be an extreme example, however, most cribs are more or less go like that.I need not remember the composition of martensitic stainless steel forever, for me to be called a good meta engineer! And I think the IIT system teaches us 'learning how to learn', with lesser emphasis on the technical-know-hows. So people cupping there is not an indication of falling standards or anything.
Yes, but you gave some good points for me to reflect upon. I'll be a regular visitor over here from now-on :P
vikasji, you and most of your commenters are displaying mindless elitism. Jimmy boy on the other hand has been able to give many astute arguments. This goes to show that the case against more IITs is weak.
@jimmy
It would be incorrect to compare the growth of new BITS campuses with new IITs. The differences between them are:
1. BITS campuses are not universities. They are still affiliated to BITS-Pilani university (Hence called, BITS-Pilani, XYZ Campus). The degrees also read BITS-Pilani, Rajasthan; hence the same brand name. (IIT campuses would be new universities)
2. The curriculum/courses in these new campuses is exactly the same as Pilani campus. (They haven't clarified this point for new IITs!)
3. Approx 50% of the faculty is transferred from Pilani campus to these new campuses. The new faculty is also recruited at the Pilani Campus. (From what is seems, new faculty at new IITs)
4. Placements are managed by Pilani Campus.
5. The higher level administration is also the same for all campuses.
6. The system of Practice School (Formalized Internships - over 300 companies) is also centralized. (Students at the new IITs would look for internships themselves)
7. The BITS campuses were started after a good amount of infrastructure was developed.
In short the only things new about these "new" BITS campuses are:
1. New students
2. New Infrastructure
3. Campus culture.
The same does not hold true for the new IIT campuses.
Though the initiative of starting new IITs is very good, I think they are spreading too fast too thin. Sad to see that politics has infiltrated education too.
Good for people to know.
@AUTHOR
Your views on new IITs is not that different but i know why u have such views. All of you are rather scared that these new IITs will take over the stablished ones like IIT Madras and Bombay etc in a time of 3 to 4 years. In this time they will have muchhhhhhhh better campuses than the old IITs.
As it is evident u hav no info abt how an IIT is strated. IIt kgp started in a jail complex and the campus was created later. The students who come to new IITs could hav well chosen the old IITs but it is only that they can study a better branch. Mind it that they are too JEE qualified and if u urself hav written jee u wud know how ranks can swing in IIT JEE exam.
I am rather sure that the first second batch of new IITs will see high placements probably higher than most of the old IITs as they hav everything in temp campus what the old IIT guys have.
I myself recruit for my company and will not shy away to pay a new IIT grad abt 20 lac per annum for the best students.
Review ur post....
is it great comaparing with other iits
I agree with saurav dev
What happened to the students on whose campas iit is formed.whether they were given iit status or where kicked out from there college
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